Legislature(1999 - 2000)
02/23/1999 09:02 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE
February 23, 1999
9:02 AM
TAPES
SFC-99 # 35, Side A
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair John Torgerson convened the meeting at
approximately 9:02 AM.
PRESENT
Senator John Torgerson, Senator Sean Parnell, Senator Randy
Phillips, Senator Loren Leman, Senator Gary Wilken, Senator
Al Adams, Senator Pete Kelly, Senator Lyda Green and
Senator Dave Donley.
Also Attending:
Senator Tim Kelly.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
SB 55-JOINT ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE
This bill was heard and held in committee.
SENATE BILL NO. 55
"An Act relating to the Joint Armed Services
Committee, a permanent interim committee of the Alaska
State Legislature; and providing for an effective
date."
The prime sponsor, Senator Tim Kelly, spoke to the bill.
He told the committee that SB 55 was designed to strengthen
the existing joint committee on military bases. It would
give a much broader scope of military activities in the
State of Alaska, and would allow the committee oversee
other aspects of the military beside base closures, such as
national missile defense, US Coast Guard and items of that
nature. It followed what other states were doing in terms
of looking at military presence in their state and try to
determine how they will be able to maintain that presence
with another two rounds of Base Realignment and Closure
(BRAC).
Senator Tim Kelly spoke of a meeting with Secretary of
Defense, William Cohen, Representative Gail Phillips,
Representative Eldon Mulder, Governor Tony Knowles and
various generals last Friday at Elmondorf Air Force Base.
Secretary Cohen indicated that he was still adamant about
going through with another two rounds of base closures. The
first would be in 2001 and the second in the year 2005.
Senator Tim Kelly felt that might be more amenable to pass
a reluctant US Congress.
Senator Tim Kelly felt the last round of BRAC closures
worked reasonably well with the exception that President
Clinton made political decisions on two of the base
closures during an election year, which undermined the non-
patrician nature of the BRAC process. He stated that the
Republicans had no confidence in the integrity of the BRAC
process while President Clinton is still in office.
He continued saying that the military had too many bases
which consumed too much of their annual budget for
operation and maintenance of the facilities as opposed to
increasing benefits for troops and development of new
weapon systems.
He explained what the Joint Committee on Armed Services
would do. It would set up an institutional memory bank
within the Legislature concerning the military presence of
the State Of Alaska, how it could be maintained and
increased. It would have a five-member public
representation and would include a member of the coast
guard. Members would be appointed to three-year terms.
He noted that other states were preparing themselves for
the next round of base closures and pointed out copies of
the State of Texas strategic master plan before the
members. Arizona recently formed a military commission.
Every state with military presence was moving toward a
proactive stance, according to Senator Tim Kelly. He felt
this step should be taken in Alaska as well.
He told the committee about a $17,500 fiscal note to cover
travel expenses of the five public members of the
committee. Co-Chair John Torgerson pointed out that the
committee did not have that fiscal note. There was only a
zero fiscal note before the committee. He understood the
House Finance Committee made up a fiscal note that
represented that $17,500. Senator Tim Kelly responded that
he was prepared to accept the $17,500 fiscal note and that
he thought it was a fair amount. Any staff the committee
might have, plus any travel done by Legislative members of
the committee could be eaten within either the Leadership
or the Legislative Council budgets.
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked if the sponsor would
anticipate that Legislative Council would approve travel
and per diem of committee members. Senator Tim Kelly
responded that on a case by case basis he thought so. This
was how BRAC committee had been set up in the past. He
didn't think a new system would have to be set up to cover
this funding scenario. At some point it might be necessary
to do hire a Washington DC lobbying firm to lobby on
Alaska's behalf. He said that the State of New York spent
$4 million per year for military retention. However, a
large part of that $4 million was designed to lobby US
Senator Ted Stevens. Fortunately, Alaska would not have to
spend that much. We would have to spend some money to
develop contacts and defend the bases in Alaska.
Senator Al Adams asked how this worked with the current
BRAC committee. "Would this committee take the place of the
realignment committee?" Senator Tim Kelly said it would.
He detailed that this process originally started in 1994
with a task force designed to protect Alaska against base
closure. During the last Legislative session, a joint
armed services committee was established. During this
Legislature, he was looking for a permanent joint armed
services committee to oversee various aspects of military
presence in Alaska.
Chris Nelson, staff of Senator Tim Kelly joined him at the
witness table. He said that the current BRAC process as
established in 1991, 1993 and 1995 was unfair to Alaska
because it provided no system through which value could be
assigned to some of the unique assets that Alaska bases
had. Specifically that process set up criteria, the highest
of which was military value. Then it asked each of the
individual services to rank their own bases and apply that
criterion within those ranks. The Alaska army bases
suffered, he testified, because Fort Richardson and Fort
Wainwright were ranked as maneuver bases and compared to
places like Fort Bragg, North Carolina, Fort Hood, Texas
and other major maneuver bases. In that analysis, Fort
Richardson got no credit for being co-located on a military
reservation with Elmendorf Air Force Base, which housed the
brand new joint mobility complex, the most modern
deployment facility of any army in the world. Because the
mobility complex was physically located on EAFB, Ft.
Richardson did not include it in it's ranking.
Mr. Nelson said that the joint armed services committee was
beginning to develop alternative criteria they would
advocate the US Department of Defense and Congress to
adopt. The new criteria would require the DOD to consider
things like joint operations, power projection, co-location
and "jointness" within the services as measurable criteria.
This would give a truer picture of the value of Alaska
bases. He also stressed that any criteria should be
reviewed and updated regularly before any new base closure
rounds. The alternate criteria would also call for an
independent rater of the bases. Any base closure round
should learn from the previous three, he argued.
Senator Tim Kelly restated that the US Department of
Defense compartmentalized its expenditures for each
military service just like the State Of Alaska did with its
capital budget, debt service, etc. Alaska's strength is in
the joint overall combination of all services he stressed.
Senator Randy Phillips asked if the $17,500 was to cover
the expenses of the five public members and staff. Senator
Tim Kelly replied that it was for the public members only.
The Leadership or Legislative Council would cover the staff
expenses. He said he wanted to keep Chris Nelson as staff
for this committee. He didn't anticipate any big staff
increases beyond the one position.
Senator Randy Phillips then wanted to know when the BRAC
process would end. Senator Tim Kelly responded that it was
legally ended with the 1995 closures. However, the US
Department of Defense was pressuring Congress to authorize
two additional rounds beginning in 2001. There was some
question when the next round would begin, but if the
department was successful in 2001 in getting Congress to
pass a new BRAC authorization, that is when it would begin.
He again spoke of attempted legislation to change the BRAC
criteria.
Senator Tim Kelly stressed that every base was on the line
for closure and that every state was nervous. The easy
base closures had already been done. Now was the time for
the tough decisions.
Senator Randy Phillips asked for clarification of when the
base closures would happen. Senator Tim Kelly said
department asked for two rounds, the first in 2001, the
second in 2003. In the conversation with Secretary Cohen,
the secretary indicated that he wanted to stretch out the
second round to 2005. There was some question whether this
Congress would be willing to approve BRAC, but the next
Congress would be under a lot of pressure to go forward,
according to Senator Tim Kelly. This was because the
military had to have base closure and had to spend less
money from their budget on physical facilities and more
money on personnel retention and new weapons.
Senator Randy Phillips referred to the language of SB 55
and noted "Powers of Duty". He said that six of the ten
powers of duty related to realignment with the other four
dealt with military presence in Alaska. Senator Tim Kelly
responded that there had been no provision to expand the
scope of the committee to do this. That was a new concept
that developed over the last two years, he said. He wanted
to make the language a little broader in the new
authorization to allow the committee to address other
issues as they might occur in the military in the future.
Senator Lyda Green wanted to know if since there had never
been a joint armed services committee in the past, was this
something that would normally be handled by a standing
legislative committee? Senator Tim Kelly replied that the
Legislature would see an increased concentration of effort
on state legislation that might be able to help military
presence in Alaska that wouldn't be seen without this joint
armed services committee. He pointed out that the House of
Representatives had a special committee on military and
veteran's affairs that the Senate had never done. This
committee would provide a single point that the military
could approach if they felt there was something the State
Of Alaska could do to help the military presence in Alaska.
Senator Lyda Green asked if there was anything to prevent a
staff member such as Chris Nelson from working for a
Senator and accomplishing the same things versus not having
the committee. Senator Tim Kelly replied that there would
not be the focal point that a joint committee would have.
The military would not have a source to go to. There would
not be five Senators, five House of Representative members
and five members of the public focused proactively on the
military in the State Of Alaska and what could be done to
advance their cause at the state level.
Senator Lyda Green wanted to know what a permanent interim
committee was? Senator Tim Kelly answered, "whatever you
want to think it is, I suppose." He said what he wanted to
do was establish a long-range committee with an
institutional memory in its membership. That was the
reason for including the five public members on the
committee. He noted that every two years the Legislature
reorganized and that some members of a previous Legislature
would have to be on the committee again. The current
committee had three seats designated as members of the
public. They would continue as such under SB 55.
Senator Lyda Green repeated her question asking for a
definition of a permanent interim committee. She also
questioned if there should be a sunset clause in the bill.
She stated that if it would be a permanent committee that
would end when its purpose was over, why it wouldn't have a
sunset. "Would the committee only meet during the interim
of the Legislature or would it meet between base closures?"
She asked. Senator Tim Kelly clarified that his intentions
were that this would be a permanent committee that would
transcend Legislatures. He suggested "interim" might have
been the wrong word.
Chris Nelson responded saying that their approach to
previous BRAC rounds had always been to sunset. However,
in doing that, the institutional memory was lost as well as
the focus on BRAC. He referred to a past Joint Task Force
on Military Bases committee that was organized in 1994 as
subordinate part of the Legislative Council to prepare for
the 1995 BRAC round. After that committee sunset there was
no joint focus on military bases, although the House of
Representative still had their Military and Veteran's
Affairs committee. He further detailed the desire to not
have a special committee to address the upcoming BRAC yet
end after that sole task had ended. He added that the
current committee would be dissolved at the end of this
Legislative session. Since the formation of the first BRAC
committee it was discovered Alaska had an opportunity to
bring new military to Alaska with the missile defense
system. Without this committee, there was no way to do
this. He referred to the Texas Master Plan, saying it was
an astonishing document. It talked about the need to speak
with a single voice, and to have an organization focused on
the entire presence of the military in Texas, according to
Chris Nelson. He then spoke of the State of New York that
put $4 million per year into this focus. Arizona and
Florida were also making efforts. He summarized saying
that other states were waking up to the fact that the
military was a key economic multiplier in their economy and
that this bill was not operating in a vacuum.
Senator Tim Kelly interrupted and told the committee he
would have no objection if the word "interim" was deleted
and a ten-year sunset clause was added.
Senator Lyda Green asked if there was mission statement for
the committee. Senator Tim Kelly answered that there was
and referred to the series of eight or nine statements
listed on the second to the last page. Senator Lyda Green
asked Senator Sean Parnell if that was appropriate.
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked if the sponsor would object
to the removal of the word "permanent" before "interim
committee" as well. Senator Tim Kelly said he liked the
word permanent and felt it implied a certain amount of
weight that the military would view as positive.
Senator Randy Phillips read from the statutes governing the
Legislative Budget and Audit Committee and the Legislative
Council. He clarified the definition of permanent interim
committee. He pointed out one section under Administrative
Regulation Review relating to staff, he felt the sponsor
should consider for inclusion in the bill: "LAA shall
provide the committee with professional and clerical
assistance under the auspices of the Legislative Council."
Senator Tim Kelly said there was a similar provision
already in the bill that would allow the committee to spend
public money. Co-Chair John Torgerson noted the language
was on page 4 line 11 and read it aloud. Senator Tim Kelly
stressed that there was no immediate plan to hire a
lobbyist firm in Washington DC. He qualified that it might
be necessary in a couple of years if the BRAC language was
reauthorized. The Legislative Council would make that
decision and handle the contract.
Senator Loren Leman suggested keeping with our other
authorizations and insert a four-year sunset rather than
ten years. The committee would then be audited and the
Legislature could extend its term. He felt the first four-
year sunset would be enough to get through the first round
of the BRAC process. Then two Legislatures from now, the
sunset could be extended.
Senator Tim Kelly asked what was the sunset on the
Administrative Regulation Review Committee. Senator Randy
Phillips believed that was a constitutionally mandated
committee and had no sunset.
Co-Chair John Torgerson recommended that some of the
measures such as highlighting Alaska for military presence
should continue past the BRAC process. Budget situations
would dictate whether or not the committee was funded and
how much money. That was an adequate check and balance. He
had no problem with a sunset of ten years.
Senator Loren Leman wondered why one seat was specified to
represent the US Coast Guard, when there were considerably
more US Army and US Air Force personnel stationed in the
state. Senator Tim Kelly replied that he wanted to make
certain that the USCG was included because it was felt they
had a large enough presence in Alaska. He noted that there
would also be two public members of the committee that
would be appointed at the recommendation of the Mayor of
Fairbanks and the Mayor of Anchorage. Currently, the
mayoral appointee from Anchorage represented the US Army.
"There is another way to get input from air force and the
army and the navy outside of the one public member that is
selected in that particular provision," he testified. He
added that Alaska had the largest coast guard base in the
world in Kodiak. He felt they should have a voice at the
table.
Chris Nelson added that, in peacetime, the USCG was a part
of the US Department of Transportation rather that the US
Department of Defense.
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked if the USCG was subject to
base closure under the BRAC provisions. Chris Nelson didn't
believe so, but said other restrictions were placed on
them.
Senator Gary Wilken referred to Amendment #1 and suggested
that if the amendment was adopted adding a designated rural
Alaska representative, the designated US Coast Guard
position could be deleted to keep the total at 15 members.
Senator Al Adams said he would not be offering Amendment #1
to the committee.
Co-Chair John Torgerson wondered why, instead of each
session, committee status reports would only be submitted
every second session. Senator Tim Kelly responded that
annual reports would cause too much paperwork. He thought
the Legislature had a tendency to overreport.
Senator Al Adams offered a motion to insert a sunset date
of 1/1/2009, as a clause on page 5 line 26. Senator Lyda
Green objected. Senator Gary Wilken spoke to the objection
saying that the military was so important to the state that
he couldn't imagine the state without it. To put any time
limit on this potentially important committee would send
the wrong message, he felt. Senator Al Adams said if the
majority of the members felt that way, he was willing to
withdraw the motion and had only offered it to help the
bill move through the committee. The amendment passed by a
vote of 5-4. Senator Gary Wilken, Senator Pete Kelly,
Senator Lyda Green and Senator John Torgerson cast the nay
votes.
The discussion turned to the fiscal note. Senator Tim Kelly
said that to date this committee had a $3500 line item and
wanted that to continue. [Inaudible discussion] He noted
that some of the public members would not want to travel at
all while others would want to go to Washington DC.
Senator Dave Donley referred to a recommendation submitted
by the Legislative Affairs Agency and urged to committee to
take that advice. [Inaudible discussion] He didn't want to
take resources from others to fund this committee.
Co-Chair John Torgerson understood there was a request for
$120,000 in the LAA budget for this committee. It was
Senator Tim Kelly's understanding that it was under the
auspice that it was included in the Legislative Council
Chair's budget, which would be the amount the chair
requested last year. It wouldn't be a separate item of new
money it would be funds incorporated by the Legislative
Council Chair.
Senator Al Adams thought there was sufficient money within
the Legislative budget and that there was no need to worry
about the $17,500. He referred to the over one million
dollars the Legislative Budget and Audit Committee rolled
over.
Senator Dave Donley said he wanted to hear from LAA. If
they felt they needed that much money, they could present
their argument. This could be a huge committee and cost a
lot of money, he warned. [Further comments were inaudible]
Senator Sean Parnell understood Senator Tim Kelly to say
that the Legislative Council had already put that item in
their budget as opposed to adding an additional fiscal
note. Therefore, the fiscal note represented funds on top
of that, he surmised. Senator Tim Kelly if the money
developed through the Legislative Council the $17,500 in
the fiscal note would not be needed. Co-Chair John
Torgerson qualified that it wasn't known if the $120,000
budget request would be approved.
Senator Dave Donley argued that the costs related to the
committee should be attached by a fiscal note. It
shouldn't wait to see what budget was approved.
Co-Chair John Torgerson ordered the bill held in committee
for more information regarding the funding for the
committee. He understood Senator Dave Donley's concerns.
He said the bill would be brought back up at Thursday's
meeting.
Senator Randy Phillips asked if the National Guard had been
considered with this bill. Senator Tim Kelly said they
were included in the language of the bill.
Senator Gary Wilken told the chair he would be gone
Thursday and Friday on personal business.
Co-Chair John Torgerson announced the schedule of the next
day's meeting.
Senator Dave Donley presented a redrafted resolution
regarding educational block grants he wished the committee
to sponsor. He made changes based on earlier discussion
held in the committee on the matter. The draft now
included reference to the US House of Representatives
resolution that passed that body the year before. He noted
that the resolution did not pass the US Senate. There had
not yet been a specific proposal on the educational block
grants this year so he could only address last year's
proposal. He pointed out some other small language changes
incorporated in the draft. He offered a motion that the
Senate Finance Committee introduce the draft as a senate
joint resolution.
Senator Al Adams asked if Senator Dave Donley had checked
with the Alaskan congressional delegation to see what
effect this resolution would have, if any, on the
dispersion of block grants. Senator Dave Donley responded
that he had not spoken to them directly on the matter. He
thought they were in support of the resolution. He had
found that they appreciated this kind of feedback.
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked if there was any objection to
the motion. Hearing none he so ordered.
ADJOURNED
Senator Torgerson adjourned the meeting at 9:48AM.
SFC-99 (11) 2/23/99
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